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Tournament, ECM and a conclusion

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Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.16 08:44:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 16/07/2006 08:45:37 I wish Tux would make this a priority. It really kills alot of the fun with pvp as it is now. Either make target jamming only possible on the EW ships or remove multispectrals from the game. Or boost counter modules with 100%. Again. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.16 20:44:00 - [2] Originally by: Sarmaul Same thing that should happen if they come to their senses and remove all the learning skill and give everyone +10 to their attribs - skillpoint rebate. When you login, the skillpoints you had invested in the skills that were removed are counted up and put into a big pool. The pool is divided into primary/secondary attribs. You can then use this pool to insta-train skills with the same primary/secondary values. Not sure about removing ecm completely.. i think it should remain, but be limited to the EW ships. However, did you watch that interview on EveTV with Farjung and some other guys? Basicly they all agreed that the only way for a Tempest to beat a megathron, even at 20 km, was to put a multispec into that extra med slot on the tempest and hope it works. I would like to fight the mega from 30km, but then he just warps away of course... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.16 21:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Sarmaul Edit 2: Unnerfing hail would help too. At least removing the speed penalty so we could fight the megathron with better dps at 20km like we are supposed to. Stay out of range and wear them down. Thats no longer possible with t2 ammo it seems... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.16 21:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire EDIT: Besides, Moa need some loving though. May be 6/5/3 slot? You get bonuses to optimal range and shield resists, so i think its meant to sit at range sniping. Its a strange ship though, i rarely see anyone using it over a Caracal. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.16 22:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 16/07/2006 21:47:15 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists that aside - i stillt hink that limiting ecm o dedicated ew ship is the way to go What's with spamming this terrible idea everywhere, seriously There's something inherently wrong in a module countering any mod requiring a lock, any offensive module (beside drones and fof, random shooting on top of it all), even if it is random, and even if it would require an insane amount of luck to work (which it doesn't). It need to me made more specific, even if that involves creating many variations against a smaller set of mods currently countered by jamming. If you keep jamming breaking lock, people will just keep flying with load of ECM, they'll just change the repartition of the mid slots modules accross the ships, effectivelly changing nothing but encouraging blobbing. Even worse, that will even more decrease the coordination costs for EW because even less communication will be needed, effectively increasing the returns on increasing gang size without increasing the need for player coordination. The difference between a blob and coordinated gang is the amount of coordination needed for a good performance, anything decreasing coordination costs is encouraging blobbing, it's that simple. Even worse, it's going to decrease the amount of options on ships fittings, effectively decreasing the complexity of gameplay, increasing the balancing issues that always arise with decreased complexity. NB. Well, like you said in some other thread, the whole EW system should work very differently to make it better. But for a quick fix solution that doesnt take years of testing and balancing, isnt it good to at least do something about this? Its really getting to the point that you dont want to fight anyone solo anymore because chances are he will be having a multispectral equipped, making all your skills virtually useless as you sit there and die. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.17 09:38:00 - [6] I think its time to do something fast. You cant have the game in its current state for another year. These multispectrals needs to go, or be constricted to EW ships. Really dont want to wait a year for this to happen. Whats the big problem? We all know the system is messed up right now. Everybody running around with single multispectrals on their combat ships and pwning anybody who doesnt have them equipped. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.17 10:07:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/07/2006 10:08:19 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Hmmm... as much as I hate jammers, I am a user and victim, it isnt that jammers jam all the time. Most ppl who get jammed by jammers are usually ganked in a group. What makes ECMs different from getting focused fired? The only problem i have is with people using single multispectrals on their combat ships to easily win the fight. I dont mind gangs using jammers, but it should take alot more than a single multispectral to shut down the enemy. In a gang, I think you should have to either have a dedicated EW ship with multispectrals, or use racial target jammers on the combat ships. In a gang of 4, each one could have a racial jammer if they want. I really, really want to get away from this "single multispectral win button" thing on normal ships because its overpowered as hell to me. Thats my only complaint. The rest of the EW system can be left alone for all I care. They might as well rename multispectral to "50% win button" because thats what it is. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.17 10:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I dont think it is proper for the community to cry foul on ECMs on nerf it because it least affect their racial ships. It is because of short-sighted nerfings/changes that bought misfortunes to EvE. So please give a better proposal than something that will gimp a race badly than it already is. And yes, I am defending Caldari ships though I do fly Gallente because most player proposals have a severe backslash to Caldari ship. They are already balanced to a point of uselessness. Well, I agree you have a point. Some classes relies on target jamming to be competetive. I fly minnie ships, and people tell me there is no way a Tempest can beat a Megathron at 20km without using target jamming - just because the t2 ammo will rip the Tempest apart without successful jamming. But if the game only allowed multispectrals on special EW ships, the combat ships could be balanced towards eachother without the need to take target jamming into account. Right now some ships DO need it to be able to win, I agree with that. And thats just poor balance in my opinion. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.17 12:30:00 - [9] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Thoughts from others on this? I read the idea, and seems interesting. I wouldnt mind a change in how the system works, and your idea seems good at first glance. Any change is good. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.17 13:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Kery Nysell Once again, the problem does not lie in the system or the modules, but in THE PLAYERS who abuse and misuse the system/modules. And this is fixed by changing the modules. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.17 13:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Kery Nysell And when all the modules are changed, and nerfed back to the stone age, we can all play together a good game of Asteroid, with our white triangle shooting white pixels at white boxes, all that on a plain black background. I agree that the Devs can't change the players, but making a game more simplist with less options is a bad thing ... WoW anyone ? Im not sure exacly what you are arguing against...you oppose to any changes to the game? Eve has balance issues just like any other mmorpg out there. Nobody want this game to be simplified, thats not what this thread is about at all... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 13:27:00 - [12] Originally by: PriceCheckMax Originally by: welsh wizard Yeah but a Domi with 2/3 multis is still a stupidly powerful Domi. What good is a dominix without ecm? ... Just gets owned, bad. No wonder people get tired of pvp in this game. At least in other games where one guy can keep the other guy stunned, it doesnt last the entire fight. It doesnt have to be this way with Eve, but currently, its just jam or be jammed. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:09:00 - [13] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 19/07/2006 11:10:27 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire 1 vs 3 Tier 1 BS is also possible. Yeah, with that nos running I imagine the tank is truly insane. Combine that with lots of EW. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Originally by: Jenny Spitfire What is wrong about debuff? ECM, NOS, whatever in mids and high. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH You really need to get out more if you find the wrong use of the word debuff that funny. @Jenny: Debuff is when you remove a buff from someone.. like in WoW, if someone have given you extra hitpoints by putting a spell on you, someone else can "debuff" it by removing the spell. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Semantically debuff has the same meaning. It means you cripple somebody. I didnt know that... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:30:00 - [16] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski You really need to get out more if "think" you can analyse me because i laugh at this. Lets both go to the pub tbh. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:33:00 - [17] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Are you even allowed to drink in your country? Oh geez, look, I analysed youuuuuuu! Im 31. Im allowed to drink in any country. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 11:34:00 - [18] Originally by: DefilerCB will u please stick to the topic , i'm reading every post in this as i want to know about the most power tool in eve more and the last page is filled with everything but what the topic is. Yeah. Sorry. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

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